Sunday, August 7, 2011
Feeding a Dolly
"Aya, your baby is hungry. Do you want to give her some milk?" I asked one lazy humid summer afternoon. My husband and I followed our little girl as she toddled off, dolly in a tight grip, into the bedroom where she found my boppy and asked for help getting onto our "nursing chair." We had no idea Aya would respond in this way, but she acted as if it were the most natural and obvious thing to do. After our difficult breastfeeding start, it was really very special for us to see that our little girl knew exactly how she wanted to feed her baby.
Nursing While Pregnant
Nursing while pregnant has been a whole new experience. The first thing that happened was that nursing became very painful. It didn't seem to matter how wide Aya opened her mouth or how gentle she latched on. It was a sharp and intense pain, but luckily for me, as soon as she started drinking, the pain lessened. Slowly, during the end of my second trimester, I knew my milk was transitioning to colostrum, and along with the transition, feeding stopped hurting. It was such a relief! From what I have read, many infants stop feeding during pregnancy because the taste of the milk changes. For my little girl the opposite has happened. After my milk turned to colostrum, she has asked to nurse more frequently than before.
I am thankful I have been able to continue breastfeeding Aya during this time. I feel like it is my way of showing her I'm still HER mama, even when her new sister arrives. I'm not yet sure how I'll nurse two, or whether Aya will even continue to be interested. I don't really know what I will do if Aya decides she wants to nurse all of the time or is upset while I feed the new baby. I don't know whether or not I will tandem nurse or nurse them separately. I really don't know. But I plan to arm myself with some good advice beforehand and do some extra reading. And then, I'll just experiment, and make decisions when new circumstances and feelings present themselves.
I am thankful I have been able to continue breastfeeding Aya during this time. I feel like it is my way of showing her I'm still HER mama, even when her new sister arrives. I'm not yet sure how I'll nurse two, or whether Aya will even continue to be interested. I don't really know what I will do if Aya decides she wants to nurse all of the time or is upset while I feed the new baby. I don't know whether or not I will tandem nurse or nurse them separately. I really don't know. But I plan to arm myself with some good advice beforehand and do some extra reading. And then, I'll just experiment, and make decisions when new circumstances and feelings present themselves.
Wednesday, July 27, 2011
My Babies Voice
When Aya was littler, I remember being jealous of the moms whose babies slept peacefully and often. It seemed I often thought of these calm babies as "good" babies, and mine as "difficult" or maybe even "bad." My friend used to call her babies cry his "voice." This helped me rethink what I thought about Aya's cries in the night, and in the day. It was her only way to express herself. She wasn't trying to be loud or tiring or difficult.
As Aya grew, she learned to suck on her arm for comfort like a thumb. I noticed that each time she'd cry she would eventually take her arm to calm herself. She too didn't want to be crying. It wasn't fun for her either. This gave me more compassion.
I found this article earlier this week. With the arrivial of our next baby this Fall, I may need to remind myself of these cries for help or love or peace. http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/good_baby.html
As Aya grew, she learned to suck on her arm for comfort like a thumb. I noticed that each time she'd cry she would eventually take her arm to calm herself. She too didn't want to be crying. It wasn't fun for her either. This gave me more compassion.
I found this article earlier this week. With the arrivial of our next baby this Fall, I may need to remind myself of these cries for help or love or peace. http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/good_baby.html
Sunday, March 20, 2011
Compassion and Understanding
Many people know I am definitely a breastfeeding supporter, but recently I've been reminded of the importance of being a compassionate supporter. By a compassionate supporter I mean realizing not all mothers can breastfeed the way they had hoped or wanted to. I mean acknowledging that there are situations that lead a mother to stop before they or the baby are ready. I mean listening to the stories of mothers without judgment.
I have a friend who recently had to wean because she was on medications that would no longer allow safe milk for her baby. The experience has been heartbreaking for my friend, and she feels inadequate. She also wonders if mothers now judge her as she feeds her baby a bottle. I believe that most mothers want to breastfeed their babies, and as a breastfeeding advocate I want to remember there is always a story behind the bottle that needs respect and understanding. Feeding our children is a personal and unique experience. All moms want the best for their babies, and if a mother who bottle feeds feels pressure or condemnation from breastfeeding mothers, then we have a long way to go.
I have a friend who recently had to wean because she was on medications that would no longer allow safe milk for her baby. The experience has been heartbreaking for my friend, and she feels inadequate. She also wonders if mothers now judge her as she feeds her baby a bottle. I believe that most mothers want to breastfeed their babies, and as a breastfeeding advocate I want to remember there is always a story behind the bottle that needs respect and understanding. Feeding our children is a personal and unique experience. All moms want the best for their babies, and if a mother who bottle feeds feels pressure or condemnation from breastfeeding mothers, then we have a long way to go.
Friday, February 4, 2011
I Never Knew...
I never knew I could love our baby this much.
Last night after school, Dan and I drove to our PO Box to pick up the mail. I was expecting a set of photos of our baby girl and there they were. I am always excited to open up mail and sometimes I order pictures just so I can have the pleasure of diving into a new set of our favorite photo captures. As we both looked through the photos, I kept stopping with each one, gushing over every smile and expression on Aya's face. "Oh, I just LOVE this baby," I kept saying, holding the photos closer as if I could just get lost in her forever. And then Dan said it, "You missed out on this feeling for so long in the beginning." It hit me. I just now really and deeply love my baby. In the beginning I could tell myself I loved my baby, but I certainly didn't feel it. There wasn't a resounding, overwhelmingly beautiful feeling in my body that made me melt when I looked at Aya. There wasn't a desire to snatch her up and kiss her all over her face.
I will never know for sure all of the reasons I had such a difficult time bonding with our baby, but I do know that the bonding process is beautiful, and that it unfolds. I am glad I have started to see it and celebrate it. Whether I would have bonded more quickly if I hadn't experienced post-partum depression I won't know either, but I do know that once my body started recovering with the help of medication, counseling and family support, that I was able to begin falling in love with Aya.
Nursing continues to be part of our bonding process. For a time, I dreaded and feared nursing sessions because they often were uncomfortable and rarely accomplished their expected calming results. Now it is a pleasure to nurse and I couldn't be happier when Aya wants me, just me.
Last night after school, Dan and I drove to our PO Box to pick up the mail. I was expecting a set of photos of our baby girl and there they were. I am always excited to open up mail and sometimes I order pictures just so I can have the pleasure of diving into a new set of our favorite photo captures. As we both looked through the photos, I kept stopping with each one, gushing over every smile and expression on Aya's face. "Oh, I just LOVE this baby," I kept saying, holding the photos closer as if I could just get lost in her forever. And then Dan said it, "You missed out on this feeling for so long in the beginning." It hit me. I just now really and deeply love my baby. In the beginning I could tell myself I loved my baby, but I certainly didn't feel it. There wasn't a resounding, overwhelmingly beautiful feeling in my body that made me melt when I looked at Aya. There wasn't a desire to snatch her up and kiss her all over her face.
I will never know for sure all of the reasons I had such a difficult time bonding with our baby, but I do know that the bonding process is beautiful, and that it unfolds. I am glad I have started to see it and celebrate it. Whether I would have bonded more quickly if I hadn't experienced post-partum depression I won't know either, but I do know that once my body started recovering with the help of medication, counseling and family support, that I was able to begin falling in love with Aya.
Nursing continues to be part of our bonding process. For a time, I dreaded and feared nursing sessions because they often were uncomfortable and rarely accomplished their expected calming results. Now it is a pleasure to nurse and I couldn't be happier when Aya wants me, just me.
Monday, January 31, 2011
An unexpected gift
I have been so grateful that for the past 11 months I have been able to pump enough milk for Aya. I have to admit though, it has not been my favorite thing to do. Holding baby Aya and seeing the joy she gets from nursing is worth every effort, but pumping isn't exactly enjoyable. Despite my efforts to look at the positive aspects, I have grown tired of the routine. Plus, it still makes me a little sore. However, I had decided that I would continue to pump twice a day beyond her first year to make sure she continued to receive the best nutrition I could give her. I kept telling myself it wasn't her decision that I work.
And so I was okay with continuing my pumping regime. Over winter break though, an unexpected gift came my way! While away from work, I was able to nurse Aya as often as she wanted and sometimes she would go an entire daytime without nursing. She was sleeping well at night and so often I might only be nursing 3-4 times in an entire 24 hour period. When I returned to work a week and half later, it was very obvious my supply had naturally dropped because suddenly my standard 8 ounces a day had dropped to 6 or even less. Rather than worry about not getting enough, I decided to just go with this new amount. I told our sitter to let me know if it didn't seem to be enough for Aya, but after a few days she said Aya was doing great despite the smaller bottle. This meant I really wasn't going to have to keep pumping as much after all ,and I can now get enough milk from just one pumping session a day. This small little gift of time that I no longer have to pump has been a nice surprise and reminds me that in the big picture, the time we mothers pump for our babies is really very short and worth more than we can know.
And so I was okay with continuing my pumping regime. Over winter break though, an unexpected gift came my way! While away from work, I was able to nurse Aya as often as she wanted and sometimes she would go an entire daytime without nursing. She was sleeping well at night and so often I might only be nursing 3-4 times in an entire 24 hour period. When I returned to work a week and half later, it was very obvious my supply had naturally dropped because suddenly my standard 8 ounces a day had dropped to 6 or even less. Rather than worry about not getting enough, I decided to just go with this new amount. I told our sitter to let me know if it didn't seem to be enough for Aya, but after a few days she said Aya was doing great despite the smaller bottle. This meant I really wasn't going to have to keep pumping as much after all ,and I can now get enough milk from just one pumping session a day. This small little gift of time that I no longer have to pump has been a nice surprise and reminds me that in the big picture, the time we mothers pump for our babies is really very short and worth more than we can know.
Babies Want to Nurse
I read somewhere recently that babies really want to nurse. Here are some experiences I have had while nursing Aya that lead me to believe this must be true.
In the beginning, when my milk supply far exceeded what Aya needed and my letdown was too fast for her small mouth, Aya continued to try nursing, even while sputtering and choking. She cried in protest to tell me something was wrong, but she never stopped trying to make it work.
When Aya was sick last week, and too stuffed up to drink and breathe at the same time, she still found a way to nurse. It looked uncomfortable and it looked like hard work, but Aya kept coming back for more.
Aya lets us know when she doesn't want something and just about everything at one time or another has fallen into this category. Sometimes she wants up, sometimes down. Sometimes she loves applesauce and peas and other times she won't touch them. Sometimes she likes to explore on her own and sometimes she wants to be close. Yet Aya never turns down nursing. It seems to be something she always wants to do.
It must be true. Babies must know their mother's milk is good for them, body and spirit.
In the beginning, when my milk supply far exceeded what Aya needed and my letdown was too fast for her small mouth, Aya continued to try nursing, even while sputtering and choking. She cried in protest to tell me something was wrong, but she never stopped trying to make it work.
When Aya was sick last week, and too stuffed up to drink and breathe at the same time, she still found a way to nurse. It looked uncomfortable and it looked like hard work, but Aya kept coming back for more.
Aya lets us know when she doesn't want something and just about everything at one time or another has fallen into this category. Sometimes she wants up, sometimes down. Sometimes she loves applesauce and peas and other times she won't touch them. Sometimes she likes to explore on her own and sometimes she wants to be close. Yet Aya never turns down nursing. It seems to be something she always wants to do.
It must be true. Babies must know their mother's milk is good for them, body and spirit.
Saturday, January 1, 2011
Still breastfeeding
Aya is 10 1/2 months now and at one time I had thought I would stop nursing her when she turned one. However, as her first birthday approaches, I don't feel as though I'm ready to stop. She still really enjoys nursing and I can't imagine that she will suddenly feel different on her birthday. So, for now, I don't really have a plan for how long I will continue to nurse Aya. I like knowing that she will benefit from my milk for as long as I give it to her, in ways that science can't duplicate. She will continue to benefit from extra immunity and other nutrients that researchers are still discovering. And perhaps too she'll benefit from the closeness and security breastfeeding provides.
Friday, December 31, 2010
Teeth!
Aya's smile will never be the same! She has teeth! I was a little worried about how nursing would go after her teeth came in, but it has been smooth. I usually don't feel her teeth at all while I nurse. It is only at the very end of feedings when she has fallen asleep or is ready to be done, that I sometimes have to be ready to take her off my breast or reposition her if she begins to clamp down.
Really, I had more discomfort nursing Aya before her teeth pushed through. She clamped down often and pulled. I now think she did this because it made her gums feel better. It was a relief that once her teeth came in I actually felt a lot better.
Really, I had more discomfort nursing Aya before her teeth pushed through. She clamped down often and pulled. I now think she did this because it made her gums feel better. It was a relief that once her teeth came in I actually felt a lot better.
Friday, December 24, 2010
The Perfect Gift
My friend and I were talking the other evening about nighttime feeding. Although it is usually not my favorite thing to do, and I'm still quite certain I'd prefer not have to get up at all at night, we both decided there are some special things about feeding our babies in the wee hours of the night.
First, babies' eyes are beautiful in the dim light. They are honest, pure and beautifully vulnerable.
Secondly, we as nursing moms really have the perfect gift to give our little ones when they wake up needing comfort. It is a special gift, made uniquely for them at that exact time and place. We are lucky to be bearers of that gift.
Lastly, for me, as a working mom, it feels important for me to be able to give my baby something that no one else can. I know there are things that our caregiver does better than me--things that only she can give to Aya...but only I can nurse our little daughter and that makes me feel like her mom more than anything else.
First, babies' eyes are beautiful in the dim light. They are honest, pure and beautifully vulnerable.
Secondly, we as nursing moms really have the perfect gift to give our little ones when they wake up needing comfort. It is a special gift, made uniquely for them at that exact time and place. We are lucky to be bearers of that gift.
Lastly, for me, as a working mom, it feels important for me to be able to give my baby something that no one else can. I know there are things that our caregiver does better than me--things that only she can give to Aya...but only I can nurse our little daughter and that makes me feel like her mom more than anything else.
Saturday, November 13, 2010
A sick little one
The next day we took Aya to the doctor and ruled out an infection. I also took her to the chiropractor for an adjustment. Mostly though, we nursed. She wasn't happy with solids as she often takes during the day. Instead, she just wanted me, and often. Two naps were spent laying close to me, nursing. She was easily comforted by nursing and easily nursed into peaceful, healing slumbers. I expected Aya to be sick for longer than she was because her buddy next door was sick for an entire week. But Aya seemed to rebound really quickly. I owe it all to breastfeeding, its antibodies, its comfort, and its healing. I read later it is good to nurse a sick baby as often as they will drink to speed healing. I wouldn't have had to read this however; Aya's body let me know that was what she needed. Amazing.
Monday, November 8, 2010
Post Partum Depression
I had heard about post-partum depression but that's all. I wasn't going to have it...I wasn't even going to have the baby blues. I am not sure why I thought I had some special immunity that a large number of women don't.
Looking back, I think my first signs of depression were from the moment little Aya was born. I remember thinking she was beautiful and I was thrilled to have labored naturally. I remember being amazed at the complexity of her tiny face. It held everything all in a miniature model, yet was still so detailed, refined and perfect. It was the proudest moment I have ever felt but for some reason I felt detached from the very life I labored for. I didn't feel a need to hold her or be close to her. The doctor laid her on my chest when she was first born and I watched Dan cut her umbilical cord. But after that, I don't remember holding her or gazing at her for a very long time. They weighed her and checked her over, cleaned her, and checked her over again. Dan held her, then Grandma Milli, and then my parents and brother. I was light headed at the time and didn't feel 100% coherent, despite the fact I had a vaginal birth free of any kind of pain medication.
After quite some time, I was able to hold Aya to feed her, but I don't remember feeling very connected to her then either. I was more excited that breastfeeding was working than I was to gaze at her and love her. She spent the night in the nursery and they brought her to me when she needed to nurse. And on the second day in the hospital I remember holding her very little still. Each time I did, she was swaddled tightly, her cap on. My friends came to visit and held her the whole time. When they left I remember them asking if I wanted to hold her. I said I didn't; I said they could lay her in her little bassinet. When I think about this now, it makes me sad. My side would have been the most comforting, most reassuring and most natural space for Aya's small little spirit--and it would have been best for me too.
The lack of connection I felt towards Aya continued, but as time went on it got worse. In addition to feeling like I hadn't fallen in love with my baby, I now felt burdened by her, overwhelmed by her, frustrated with her. I honestly had many days where I didn't want her and didn't want her to be mine. I would look at her crying and feel like letting her be. I didn't feel sad for her or concerned for her well-being. I was taking care of her out of a feeling of obligation, not out of love for my sweet baby girl who was obviously asking for something whether she knew what it was or not.
Aya wasn't a very happy little baby. She cried a lot. It felt as though she was either sleeping or screaming so all I wanted her to do was sleep. Then, when she was awake, I wasn't happy until she was sleeping again. I felt anxious all the time, hoping for sleep, hoping it would last for a long time, and nervous about what I would do when she was up again. When she wasn't happy or sleeping, or wasn't sleeping long enough or well enough, when I wanted it, and how I wanted it, I was angry. I felt like I was on the verge of tears most of the time. When I wasn't crying, I gave myself pep talks about how much I had to be grateful for and I would have things in perspective again for a little while. I would be okay until things felt out of my control again. Anger returned and a mean hot energy ran through my entire body. I had to scream or cry to let it out, and in the process I said hurtful things to my husband and little Aya. Both times I promised her I would never say anything bad about her ever again.
Weeks past and things weren't getting any better. We weren't thriving. Even after we worked with our lactation consultant and a chiropractor and saw Aya's demeanor improve dramatically, I continued to feel miserable. Aya was better but I was getting worse. I felt really sad, really withdrawn and angry. It didn't help that I was having difficulty sleeping and my husband was emotionally and physically exhausted balancing work and his new baby girl, while never knowing what he could expect out of me. He walked carefully, not wanting to step on any hot spot that might set me off. We were in survival mode.
And so there came a day when we knew I needed to go and see my midwife to find out what to do. After a few simple questions she said she thought I was experiencing depression. She said she thought an anti-depressant would help. I cried in her office. I felt and looked terrible despite the fact I had gotten ready, showered and done my hair. The next time she saw me, about two weeks later, she walked in the room, took one look and said, "Wow, you look great, wide-eyed and happy! It must be going well!" And it was. The medication was really helping. I felt like I had found myself again. I felt like now I could fall for my baby girl who brought tears to her dad's eyes when she arrived.
Aya hadn't changed a lot. She still had moments of crying, still woke up frequently in the night and still wasn't a laid back baby. Yet, I could appreciate her now and give this new way of life a chance to reshape me, rather than trying to make it fit what I had previously known. I realized the more I tried to make Aya fit our life rather than fit ours around hers, the more frustrated I would be. I was going to have to learn what it really meant to put someone else needs before mine and be willing to let my routine get interupted a lot, again and again. It was time to start swimming with the new current no matter how much I wanted to resist it. But I was too worn out trying to swim upstream any longer. I believe my medication enabled me to think clearly enough to realize these good truths.
I also saw a counselor who walked me through anger management. We talked about having proactive and reactive responses to anger that would work for me--in both cases, I found I needed to take step back and figure out exactly why I was upset before saying anything. We discovered that without medicine I had had to act out of an emotional state of mind rather than a rational state of mind because my anger came so quickly. With medication, I was able to recognize when anger was coming and was calm enough to be proactive.
I am still learning a lot about post-partum depression but I have learned a lot already. Naturally, it's prevention intrigues me the most. Here is a compilation of some of the things I am discovering.
It is important for mom and baby to be together as often as possible after the birth. A baby is naturally programed to stay close to his mother for warmth, nourishment and bonding. Swaddling isn't necessary when a baby stays with his mother and it doesn't do the job that the human body does to regulate body temperature.
It is better to leave the hospital cap off of your babies head. A mother who can smell her baby's head can bond with her baby better.
Let the doctors and nurses do initial tests on your baby while you hold him. Skin to skin contact with your baby, early and often, helps with bonding.
Your baby will want to nurse soon after birth. By keeping your baby with you, you won't miss his window. This first nursing is important because your baby is in a unique state of alertness, ready to connect with you. If your baby is away from you when he wants to start nursing you might miss his cues.
If possible, clean your own baby. Studies have shown that mammals in the wild who don't clean there own babies often don't bond with their babies and sometimes even abandon their babies.
If possible, have a completely natural birth free of medications that could interfere with the hormonal responses your body uses to connect with your baby.
Omega 3s are important during pregnancy and post-partum. A mom and baby starved of these nutrients are more prone to post-partum depression and colic. A liquid form is easiest for your body to absorb.
When your body is ready and movement isn't painful, exercise regularly after the baby comes--as often as possible. Studies have shown that physical activity can work as well as medication in treating post-partum depression.
Recognize you need as much care as the new baby. Have an extra hand stay with you after your baby arrives. You will need someone to take care of you while you care for your baby. In many other cultures, the first weeks of post-partum are very set aside. They are looked at as very different from routine days. In some cultures there is actually a ceremony after several weeks of post-partum to welcome the mother back to her routine in the community. Do what you can to set aside these early weeks. Limit visitors if they aren't helpful to your recovery. The mother panda doesn't leave her den for a month after her baby is born. This is a helpful for picture for me when I think about visualizing the early weeks. When nature has its way, the early weeks are a very focussed time, free from extra stress and the normal routine.
Finally, nursing that is going well is shown to help prevent and fight post-partum depression. If it isn't going well, it can contribute to feelings of depression so seek help the minute you have questions, not after you are already experiencing a problem.
Friday, November 5, 2010
Another breastfeeding Perk
Sunday, October 31, 2010
Teeth
Saturday, October 30, 2010
An Added Perk
Tuesday, October 26, 2010
Making the Most of Pumping Sessions
I don't think pumping is any mother's favorite thing to do. It is not as cozy or as comfortable as nursing a little warm child, but it is important and necessary for many moms, including me! There are a few things I have learned about pumping that have helped me get more out of my sessions, and I'd like to pass these ideas along. It is disappointing to go through an entire pumping session only to get a little return for your time. Here are some things that have helped me add volume to my bottles!
Relaxing my shoulders. It is amazing how my body responds to being comfortable.
Massaging my breasts as I pump.
Returning to the stimulation phase on the pump after the initial letdown is over.
Pumping a full 15 minutes. I find I often get more milk in those final 2-3 minutes that I otherwise would have missed.
Lifting my breasts while pumping and leaning forward. Is it gravity?
What has helped most however, is doing nothing...if I do and think about something else while I'm pumping, I get far more milk than if I'm aware of just how how far away I am from my desired goal.
It has also helped me to realize that it is okay if I don't get a lot of milk from one session. I can pump again or more often for a day. The milk will come; I might just have to spend a little more time loving my baby by pumping more often for a day.
Relaxing my shoulders. It is amazing how my body responds to being comfortable.
Massaging my breasts as I pump.
Returning to the stimulation phase on the pump after the initial letdown is over.
Pumping a full 15 minutes. I find I often get more milk in those final 2-3 minutes that I otherwise would have missed.
Lifting my breasts while pumping and leaning forward. Is it gravity?
What has helped most however, is doing nothing...if I do and think about something else while I'm pumping, I get far more milk than if I'm aware of just how how far away I am from my desired goal.
It has also helped me to realize that it is okay if I don't get a lot of milk from one session. I can pump again or more often for a day. The milk will come; I might just have to spend a little more time loving my baby by pumping more often for a day.
Saturday, October 23, 2010
Plugged Duct
Where I've Nursed
It is funny to think about the places one can nurse. I thought I'd share a quick list...to remind you of some of your own funny moments. One of the things I've decided I love most about babies is that they wear their feelings on their sleeves. They aren't afraid to be open and are naturally vulnerable. I can learn from my Aya's nature: it is okay to need care and it is good to ask for it.
Here are some places where I've nursed: at the park on the bench and on the grass, in dressing rooms at GoodWill and Talbots, while leaning over her car seat, at the coffee shop, in the backseat, while on the move, while sitting still and while lying down. My favorite was while I walked her in her soft carrier. She just couldn't wait until we got home.
Working and Nursing
Saturday, September 25, 2010
The Sound of Nursing
When it is quiet enough in our home to listen while I feed Aya, I realize what a beautiful sound nursing is. I love to hear her swallow deeply in the beginning, listening to the sound of abundant milk flowing. Then, later in the feed, it is the gentler swallowing, the quieter drips of milk that sound satisfying, like the lasts bites of a decadent dessert you don't want to eat too quickly. Aya's body seems to almost dance to the music. When the music of the milk is loudest, her eyes are wide open, her hands often reach out for my face, a string on my hoody or my breast. Then, as the "music" calms and slows, so too her face relaxes, and her shoulders rest. As the "music" fades, her arms fall to her side, her hands open and she is lulled to sleep by the slow dance. It couldn't be anymore peaceful, for her, or me.
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